Mary Lou Kayser: Crafting Creative Confidence

I’ve spent more than 25 years with a microphone in my hand. Whether it’s watching a game unfold from the dugout well or keynoting to corporate audiences, I love sharing a behind the scenes look at the success stories that never make it to the highlight reel. And if there’s one truth that has stood the truth of time, it’s that no matter the industry, readiness wins. 

Readiness isn’t the kind of glamorous concept I expect to go viral anytime soon, but it is one thing I have seen that consistently separates those who succeed from those who simply show up. Let me take you back a moment. 

In September 2014, the Kansas City Royals had its first shot at a post-season in 29 years. An entire generation of fans grew up having never watched post-season baseball played in Kauffman Stadium. But that year, the Royals made the Wild Card. One opportunity to either win or go home. 

The city was electric. The game? Chaos, in the best kind of way. Kansas City was down four runs and with the clock ticking, most fans thought the season was over. Then came a game-changing hit from bench hitter Josh Willingham that began a historic World Series run. He may not have been a household name, but he was ready to deliver. 

Beyond baseball, I’ve learned that business has the same heartbeat as the game. You can’t control the timing of your opportunity, but you can control your preparation. And when the moment comes, the ones who are ready to win are the ones who already put in the work, even when no one was watching. 

The message was driven home once again, so to speak, in a recent episode of my podcast Rounding the Bases, when I sat down with someone who doesn’t just talk about change…she’s at the forefront of disruption. And her readiness to adapt to the unexpected things that have come her way have been the key to her massive success. 

Her name is Mary Lou Kayser, the Founder of Kingfisher Media Publishing, a best-selling author and AI authority who helps professionals future-proof their work. Using creativity as the edge and an attitude of possibility, she champions the notion of harnessing tech to reprogram your success…before the algorithm does it of you. 

SINGLE: break free, show up ready

You can’t be ready for what’s next if you’re clinging to what has always been. 

It’s a lesson that was central to my recent conversation with Mary Lou as we discussed what she calls The 4 S’s: Status quo, safety, security and same old, same old. 

They’re words many use to describe responsible choices, but from Mary Lou’s vantage point, they’re nothing more than comfort zones disguised as strategy, deterring people from swinging the bat or raising their hand in the room where change is happening. Put differently, things that keep people stuck. 

“In this crazy age that we live in,” Mary Lou said, “there’s so much disruption and there are so many things coming at us all the time.” 

It’s no wonder we hold on so tightly to what we know. 

Maintaining status quo doesn’t rock the boat, even if readiness tells you it’s time to build a better one. Safety encourages predictability while readiness embraces potential. Security clings to what has been earned, while readiness pushes you to chase what your cable of. 

“Maybe stepping back a little and looking at the 4 S’s and asking yourself, all right, you know what? I’m not really willing to give up my security right now, but I could be a little less safe,” she explained. “I could take a little more risk in something, whatever that looks like for you.” 

Readiness isn’t just about preparation, either. It’s also about courage. Because as easy as it is to prepare for what’s familiar, real growth hides in the bold pivots that make us uncomfortable. 

As for the 4 S’s? Only you can decide whether to let them block you, or become the reason you’re ready to move when the moment arises. 

DOUBLE: partner with change

There’s a lot of noise right now about AI, making it easy to feel like we’re all in some kind of race against a machine. But after years in clubhouses, I’ve learned that winners have learned to embrace change. 

“You know, we humans love change when we choose it,” Mary Lou shared. “We do not like it when it’s forced on us.” 

She would know, considering she has built a career on coaching professionals how to future-proof their work. Not by out-coding computers or replacing creativity, but amplifying it. 

“I think I use AI every day,” she said. “It doesn’t not write for me, it does not think for me, but it is a strategic thinking partner.” 

To be successful takes a mindset shift that redirects you away from fear and towards a readiness to adapt. If you’re willing to learn, new resources have the potential to expand your impact. 

Whether in business, baseball or everyday life itself, change is coming whether we’re ready or not. Why not make the most of it?

TRIPLE: small changes, big momentum

 It’s easy to think that readiness has to come from a headline-making shift. But in my experience, I’ve found it’s built in the margins…the quiet, daily moments no one sees but you. 

Over the years, I’ve interviewed thousands of people about what it takes to win. One of the most consistent themes I’ve heard over the years is to start small, stay consistent and let momentum do the rest. 

Mary Lou shared something similar when describing the incremental routines she practices every day that culminate into major progress in her life. 

“These are the little things for me that make my day, and then my weeks . . . and then my years,” she shared. “When I look back, I say I had more W’s than L’s.” 

Because even though we often overestimate what we can do in a day, we tend to underestimate what we can build over time. Over time, the daily opportunities to make progress are what ensure we’re ready to respond when the pressure of a big opportunity is upon us. 

That’s how readiness wins. Not all at once, but one decision at a time.

HOME RUN: Change is already here

If there is one guarantee in life, it’s that change is constant. 

No matter what game, industry or stage of life you find yourself in, you can know the strategies that worked yesterday won’t always work tomorrow. And the key to staying relevant isn’t holding on tighter, it’s letting go smarter. 

This came through loud and clear in my interview with Mary Lou, whose first rule of readiness is trading “this is how we’ve always done it” for “what else can we try?” 

“I’m asking the big questions about where do we want to go next,” Mary Lou said. “Because I’m a builder, I want to be a part of building the next iteration of what our world looks like.” 

So whether you’re stepping into the batter’s box or leading a team through digital disruption, the question is the same: Are you ready? Because when preparation meets possibility, that’s when readiness wins. 

Listen to the full interview here or tune in to Rounding the Bases every Tuesday, available wherever you get your podcasts.

LEARN MORE ABOUT readiness wins FROM JOEL 

Book Joel Goldberg for your next corporate event. He draws on over 30 years of experience as a sports broadcaster. In addition, he brings unique perspectives and lessons learned from some of the world’s most successful organizations. Whatever your profession, Joel is the keynote speaker who can help your team achieve a championship state of mind.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Joel Goldberg 0:16

Hello everybody. And welcome back to another episode of Rounding the Bases presented by Community America Credit Union: Invested in You. So grateful for my partnership with them. And I heard it on our TV broadcast the other day. Patrick Mahomes, the star quarterback, was was at the Royals game, and Bobby Witt Jr. was coming up to the plate, and our announcer said, those are two of the big spokesmen for Community America Credit Union. They sponsor them on TV, I think, as well. And I said, Where's my love? I get to do a little stuff with them as well. So I love working with them, and appreciate their support as well. Quick shout out to my friends at Chief of Staff Kansas City. You don't have to be in Kansas City. If you're around the country looking for a job, looking for a resource, just give them a call. They are all about connectivity, and that's why I love to work with them. And their tagline really sums it up: Making Connections That Matter. chiefofstaffkc.com. Making Connections That Matter. And I always think that's a good segue to talk about my guest that is coming up, or whoever that guest might be, because oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes, it comes from a connection. And that was the case again today. And I will say, before I get into the formal intro, that a lot of times my guests will come from suggestions. But in this case, I was suggested for her podcast and and the conversation for me was so good, I wrapped up and I said, I need to have this guest on my show. I think I said it something along those lines. So leadership, storytelling and digital transformation collide in today's installment of Rounding the Bases as I'm joined by a guest who doesn't just challenge the status quo. She's at the forefront of disruption. Her name is Mary Lou Kayser, the founder of Kingfisher Media Publishing, a best selling author and AI expert who helps professionals future proof their work, using creativity as the edge. With an attitude of possibility, she champions the notion of harnessing tech to reprogram your own path to success...before the algorithm does it to you. I think everything right there is in the intro in terms of just how I think interesting this can be and what really lies ahead for all of us. So let me jump in right now with my guest, Mary Lou, how are you?

Mary Lou Kayser 2:36

I am so great. Joel, thank you for having me today. I'm looking forward to this.

Joel Goldberg 2:42

There's so much that I want to talk to you about, and I felt that way, as I said, after our conversation, just because there was, I thought, a great energy and connectivity, and the conversation was fun, but you're doing so many things that are so relevant. I think to everyone. Maybe I'm being selfish and it's just to me. I know that's not, not the case too. So boy, where? Where to start? I I'm so fascinated by just where things are going and and AI and digital content, which, by the way, applies to all of us in some form or another. Let me start with this before I ask you how you got there, how you got here, because nobody started where you're at right now. This stuff didn't exist back in the day. Tell me a little bit more about about your business and your passions in terms of it.

Mary Lou Kayser 3:33

Yeah, so, I run a business called Kingfisher Media Publishing, and it's really the umbrella for a lot of different creative projects. You mentioned some of them. I've been podcasting for more than 11 years. I've written several books. I've got a new one coming out, which I know we'll talk about a little bit later in the show. I'm a former formal educator. I have a master's in teaching, and for the last 15 years, I've been immersed in this digital revolution that we've all experienced to one degree or another. Some of us, I think, more front row seat or right behind, you know, home plate, to use your metaphor, than being way up in the upper deck. But the fact of the matter is, the digital transformation of the planet really has ushered in so many opportunities and questions and confusion excitement, and we are at such an interesting point right now here in 2025, that you mentioned, AI, the just people have been predicting the speed it was going to hit us. And, boy, they were not lying. It's here and it's, it's, it really, it's, it's wild. It's a wild ride out here.

Joel Goldberg 4:58

Yeah, I mean, I. Right? I think that generally, people, the the average person, will say, I don't know what the average person is, but I'm just like, I don't, I don't know. I'm just thinking about general stuff that I hear about a I just just on the surface, you know, the the the amateurs, or below that are aware of it, but haven't really delved into it. And I hear something along the lines of, you know, it's taking over the world, or we're going to be run by robots, or the world is coming to an end and, and, you know, nothing is ever as extreme as as we make it, but it is disruption in the biggest of ways. And I, you know, I like to say that I am sort of an advanced amateur, like I'm digging into stuff that, when I tell other people about it, they say, wow, it can do that?

Mary Lou Kayser 5:49

Yeah.

Joel Goldberg 5:49

And that's really exciting to me, and I want to share that with people too, because it's life changing. I mean, I go back to, I'm thinking about in our lifetimes. I go back to the creation of the internet.

Mary Lou Kayser 6:02

Yeah.

Joel Goldberg 6:02

We can't think of a time before that. It's not possible as much as I would like to tell my kids about the Yellow Pages and encyclopedias and card catalogs and, you know, micro fish and all these things that we had, you know, in the school libraries growing up.

Mary Lou Kayser 6:18

Sure.

Joel Goldberg 6:19

It's a different world right now it is so you know, the next generation will never know that this didn't exist. How do you balance that? The fear? I mean, there's just a natural fear of change to begin with.

Mary Lou Kayser 6:31

Yes.

Joel Goldberg 6:32

But for me, it's my feeling at 53 years old, is if I don't embrace this one, I'm going to fall behind and become irrelevant. Two, I'm missing out on an opportunity to be better at what I do. But that's hard to explain to a lot of people.

Mary Lou Kayser 6:49

It is and it you use the key word there, which is fear. You know, we humans love change when we choose it, we do not like it when it's forced on us and the internet. I talk about this in my book. You know, I remember when emails showed up like, what, we're not going to write letters to each other anymore by hand. You know, that was a big that was a big adjustment. And then here comes the first dot.com and then the bust, and then the next wave, when social media hit. And there are a lot of people that the sky was falling right back when YouTube and Twitter and Facebook hit the scene, and I'm seeing the exact same thing happening now, only at scale, because more people today are actually have a digital footprint than they did in say, 2006 2007 2008 because those platforms that I just mentioned allowed people to get on line, en mass, and as far as the AI world goes, I agree with you. I think I use AI every day. I primarily use ChatGPT. I openly talk about that. It does not write for me, it does not think for me, but it is a strategic thinking partner, and it's the best editor you could possibly have, because it never needs a coffee break, right? It's just amazing what it can do in a very short in a matter of seconds that said, I see, really, three camps right now. I see the people who are absolutely, you know, no way, not touching the stuff, right then there's kind of the in between, where it's like only when I need a little something, something here and there, and then there's the all in crowd, right? And I think you and I would fall more into the all in crowd. And I think also you defined we are advanced amateurs. I don't think anybody's a professional in AI. If anybody is claiming to be one, they're lying, because it's too new and it's moving too fast, where, I think one of the best, I guess, mindsets around AI that I practice with the people I work with is adopt an AI literacy approach. Think about when you were in school only at a rapid pace, when you were becoming literate in whatever field you were interested in. You know, you are literate in the sports world, Joel and in broadcasting, and probably in other things too. Any kind of field of study requires time and investment and really diving in and messing around with the stuff. And the only way a person is going to learn what AI can and cannot do is by using it.

Joel Goldberg 9:41

Yeah, you know, my fear when I started was and I just wasn't thinking about it the right way is, well, how do I know it's right? And that's true. I mean that there therein lies part of, I think, a critical piece that you still have to think. You can't just and so, you know, like when, when everybody got hung up about in, you know, you came from the education world, and the most common, you know, response you were hearing, certainly, from from academia and in the university world and high schools too, was, it's cheating. You can't use it, and I'm starting to see a shift in that. And that was wrong. Because why would you then disallow your students to use and learn the technology that is going to help them the rest of their life? And I think, but I don't think, I think everybody thought it was a cheat tool, a hack at first. And I think the more important piece to this is making sure people understand how to still critically think yes and do things. But you used a word in there that I think is so important, by the way, if you're listening to this right now, and you have, for lack of a better term, geeked out on this stuff the way Mary Lou has, the way I have, at different levels. I think you're more of an expert than than me, but it's, it's every day for me. And I'm not going to say it's obsession, but it's my go to, on the phone, on my computer, for anything. And what I see is that a lot of people are using it like Google.

Mary Lou Kayser 11:18

Exactly.

Joel Goldberg 11:19

And that's okay, because you can, and you should. I prefer to use that over Google. I've got something that I need to fix in the house. When we're done with this, I don't fix very much, by the way, but I don't like the manual that came with it, and it will help me get to where I need to go. Great. But can you used a word to me that is that I want to challenge everybody to think of ChatGPT, or whatever you're using in terms of AI for this. It's a partner. It's a think partner. It's an accountability partner. Shoot. It could be a partner in terms of a therapist. And, no, I'm not saying replace a therapist, but it can provide you inspiration. It could provide you motivation. It, I mean, when I when I now, wake up every morning I, I say good morning, not like a hey, how's it going, but the good morning I've had it trigger. When it sees Good morning, it knows to send me a motivational quote, and then to process what I send it is for my day, for my calendar, and it really helps me kind of map out my day in terms of perspective and goals. And so that's just one little thing. And then to what you're saying too, like it's not gonna it didn't write my first two books. It's not gonna write my next book whenever that comes, but it is a good editor. And then the flip side is when I have questions, quick things that I need to do, hey, take my voice, help me write this. And then I flip the script on it, I let it write something small for me, and then I edit it exactly so it's there's constantly thinking going on. I'm curious what you think and how, how you've made it work for you?

Mary Lou Kayser 13:00

Yeah, you are describing such a great process, and I think that's ultimately what each person needs to do is develop a rhythm and a pattern, and don't be afraid to have it challenge you. That's one of the things that I've loved about interacting with my AI. I actually have named my AI. It knows me really well, because I have worked with it so much that I can have it reference things that I forgotten, or say, hey, remember, about two weeks ago we were talking about this, and it'll pull it up. It's like, Oh, thank goodness, because one thing I've noticed Joel, is the volume that you can produce in one session, going back and forth with questions and looking at what it generates is enormous. I average, what I typically do is within a thread, usually it always starts with a query. I gave it context, I asked, usually ask it to act like something, and then I learned a tip from a previous guest on my podcast that one of the keys to getting more out of your gen AI. And I think I want to clarify for listeners, is that we're talking about generative AI here, not LLMs or machine learning and the broader scale. It's a generative AI system like ChatGPT or Co-Pilot or Claude. You know, there's a bunch out there, but right now, ChatGPT is dominating the generative AI space when it comes to text interaction, right? Text generation, you said something too that I wanted to touch on as well about the cheating, because that's a very common right now. Calling people out on LinkedIn has been about, oh, that's you used AI to write this. It's become an Olympic sport. It's like, who cares, right? 50% of LinkedIn content now is, has been generated by AI. And a lot of people don't do what you and I do, which is look at what it produced and then edit it and make it our own. They just copy and paste, because they're looking for volume whatever. The thing about the cheating piece that again as a former at be having been in the formal education system at one time. The problem with with what's happening with education is it is a very old, outdated model that is colliding with modern technology. And the two don't get along. And so in the old model, absolutely, it's cheating. In the new model that we're building as we go it is not. And that's the problem is, people, humans, we humans, all of us, are so stubborn and slow when it comes to well, this is how it used to be for me, and it's going to be like that for You. No, it's not. And you and I are parents. We know our kids, my kids have thrown stuff back in my face and made me go back and say, You're right. I'm coming from a different paradigm, and I need to switch. And AI is forcing that hand again, whether you like it or not. I people in my life who are literally running the other way from it. They want nothing to do with it, meanwhile, people in their lives that they love are using it all the time. My nephew, for example, he will be a junior in college. He and I let in six months ago, he needed some help writing an essay as a former English teacher, he came to me, we got into conversation. He goes, Oh, everybody's using ChatGPT at college. Everybody. And I'm like, yep, why wouldn't you? He goes, Yeah, why wouldn't you? It's there to write their essays. So I think what we need to do systematically, is perhaps accelerate, you know the Okay, let's catch up to the way the system is operating to meet the technology without losing the critical thinking, the humanity, the community that you get when you're in an organization. And I don't know, I think it's time for public education, for a massive overhaul. That's just my opinion, but, yeah.

Joel Goldberg 17:30

I think most people feel that way. Getting there is a different story, right?

Mary Lou Kayser 17:34

Completely, completely different story.

Joel Goldberg 17:37

It's, I don't know, it's one of those things that once it happens, it'll be embraced. But again, change is scary, especially when you've done things, it's just easier to do things the same way. It's not easier to do things, but mentally, oftentimes it is. So let's, let's talk about about your new book that is coming up. It's Not You, It's The Algorithm: How to Slow Your Scroll and Start Paying Attention to Your Life Again. Boy, I love I love that title, and it's it. It almost sounds counterintuitive to what we're saying, right? Because we are so wrapped up in the scroll, whether it be ChatGPT, whether it be scrolling our our phones. I mean, one of the things that I have have now attempted to do, I've been trying to do this for a while, but I'm on a little bit of a roll now, is no scrolling on the phone until you get that morning meditation in just to slow things down a little bit. Now, that fits my personality trait of needing to slow things down. It won't be this. It's different for every single person, but it is possible to do all of this, I think. And I think that's what you're getting at, too. I mean, we live in a world of algorithms. So tell me about the focus of this book.

Mary Lou Kayser 18:55

Yeah. So the focus of this book was, it came, it was the book I didn't know I was going to write. To be honest with you, at the beginning of the year, as I think many of us do, I sat down and was looking ahead. Okay, what do I want in 2025? And usually I'm met with excitement and anticipation. And instead, this year, there was this familiar feeling in my chest, it was really heavy and thick, and I just realized that I had hit what I'm calling algorithmic rock bottom. I was so burned out and done with chasing something I couldn't name. As somebody who's been operating in the digital space for, like I said, the last 15 years, I really started this journey in 2010 and when it hit me in 20 this year, 2025 that I had devoted 15 years of my life to what exactly? When I started to reflect on I followed all the rules. I, I listened to the experts, I bought the programs and the systems and everything. And I've had some wins. I'm not saying I've had some. I've had some winning seasons. However, overall, I think I just felt this heaviness of a lot of loss, and it, it, it it then led me to, literally, I got the download of a book that's been dancing around the edges of my life for a little bit. And it, for anybody who's listening, who's had any kind of creative download, you know what I'm talking about, it just comes to you. You're the vessel, and through it you've written books, Joel. You probably know it. Sometimes you can't stop it, and that's what happened. And calling out that tension that you just did is absolutely right. I am not anti-tech. I am not saying, throw your phone into a ravine and go live in a yurt, all right? That's an extreme. There are people that want to do that. They're like, I'm done. What I'm really getting at is we, we, we as a culture and as a world, I think, haven't been paying enough attention to the small, incremental ways the algorithm has been steering us toward its agenda, and we have lost collectively, sight of ours. I can, I have, that happened to me. And so this book, in this book, I share my story. It's not a traditional non-fiction book. It's not a bunch of bullet points with deep research. It's really a it's my story, and it's it's I am critiquing the culture, and I'm asking big questions about where do we want to go next? Because I'm a builder, I want to be part of building the next iteration of what our world looks like and what it looks like now, in some ways, is working. In a lot of ways, it's not. And again, you and I have children who are operating in a world that was is extraordinarily different from the one we grew up in and came of age in. And I think that it's time to again, gain some awareness about how much we are using devices, whether it's a phone, a computer, a laptop, you know, a tablet, and come back to the real world and figure out a way, how can we do this so that again, we're not dismissing these amazing tools and changes, but we're also not losing completely what makes being alive. And as Mary Oliver says, What are you going to do with your one wild and precious life? Because it goes fast. And I look at young people, and they say, are you going to look back at your entire teenage years and say, I was in Instagram eight hours a day. I was on Tiktok eight hours a day. What did that give you? What does that give us? That's really one of my big questions.

Joel Goldberg 23:16

Yeah. I mean, it's heavy. There's It is heavy when I look at your website and the books promoted there, maryloukayser.com says, The book for people who are smart enough to know they're being played and curious enough to fight back. It's everything you're talking about, obviously, but you don't have to wait to start reclaiming your edge. And then it encourages people to join the sub stack. I would do that. Beyond the scroll, early essays, behind the scenes, stories. I mean, there are a million books out there. Anything that involves storytelling, to me is what is the way I like to consume. So I'm really excited about this. Before we get to my baseball theme, questions I want to I want to ask you, because it really falls into what we're talking about here, the 4 S's that keep people stuck: status quo, safety, security and same old, same old. And we have all been there, some more than others, some less. And there's something Mary Lou and this is something I've been fighting if I'm if I'm going to be vulnerable here right now, this is something that I'm fighting to break my own cycles of safety of you know, everybody tells me you're doing a million things, and I am. And there's the perception of whatever people think that's always going to be the case, right? I'm very much in the public eye, but secretly I would say, I play it way too safe on everything. And that's always, I don't know where it comes from. I'm trying to figure that out, but I've always, that's always been the way I operate and and I'm starting to understand that, to get out, out of that psychological safety, to push it a little bit more, I. May or may not always work, but it feels different and and so I can completely relate to the 4s in a bad way. Tell me about those and where that came from?

Mary Lou Kayser 25:12

Well, it came out of direct experience, right? I don't know if there's anybody listening who hasn't, isn't within one of those. I've always I have a very strong curiosity gene and an adventure gene. I have been seeking and challenging myself since I can remember. I mean, just the other day, my mom was going through old boxes of stuff, and she came across a box from when I was 12, stuff that she and my dad had saved. I'm looking at these things I wrote. I'm like, there it is. I mean, some of us are just, I think, built more for pushing the envelope, and I certainly am. I I was rebellious as a teenager. I then though in my 20s, once I was married and became a high school English teacher, I fell into the system the patterns of, Okay, now we're going to get the house and we're going to get the dog and, oh, we're going to have kids now. And there's just something about you just fall into that, because everybody else around you is, and then one day you wake up, and I always refer to that one Talking Heads song when David Burns sings, you know, this is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife. Well, you know, what else is there? Basically, he's saying and, and that's part of the I think a theme of my life is the title of my latest poetry book, is, the river only runs one way, right? You it when, if you've ever been by a river, it's only going one way, folks, right? Time is only moving one way. And you can't go back, but you can stop and look around and say, okay, am I playing it too safe? Am I sacrificing what my deepest dreams and desires in exchange for what looks good to everybody else? Or is it time for me to perhaps take some risks? And I'm not, I'm not talking about anything dangerous or immoral or unethical or illegal, right?

Joel Goldberg 27:28

Just getting outside your comfort zone.

Mary Lou Kayser 27:29

It's just, it's, that's what, and that's, for me, the algorithmic rock bottom was that sign. Is like, Mary Lou, you have been playing in a system, and you keep going back to it, thinking it's going to deliver something that it is not. So if you've ever hit rock bottom, or, you know someone who has, there's only two choices at that point. You can stay there, or you can rise. And I decided I'm going to rise. I am going to challenge myself again to be more vulnerable, put my story into a book, get it out there. Talk to people like you, Joel, about what's happening, and invite others to come along, whatever that looks like to you, even if it's just what you described, how you start your day instead of jumping on Instagram or Tiktok or Facebook, and you don't know what's going to meet you. That's the thing. You could see a cute puppy video, or you could see some natural disaster halfway around the world. That's how you start your day. You can't unsee that now, right? So it's really, I know. Again, I believe in the law of polarity. That the tension is in between the two poles. So you want freedom, but you want security too. You love the person you with, but at times you're like, you want to kick them in the you know what? Right? You know that's just being human. So in this crazy age that we live in where there's so much disruption and there's so many things coming at us all the time, maybe stepping back a little and looking at those 4 S's and asking yourself, all right, you know what? I'm not really willing to give up my security right now, but I could play the I could be a little less safe. I could take a little risk in something, whatever that looks like for you, right?

Joel Goldberg 29:28

Otherwise, in the words of David Byrne, same as it ever was, same as it ever was. Which I want to thank you now, in the in the in the best of ways, for having that song in my head. Because the Talking Heads are in my head. I'm happy. So that's a, that's a good thing. And so true. David Byrne was, always, was and always will be ahead of his time in whatever incredible human, yeah, I mean, one of the greatest at anything he does of all time. That's a, that's a different discussion. Question. But I just, I find this stuff so fascinating. It's so relevant and and I'm glad that it is. We are, I, you know, like that whole thing for me, with with waking up that way, is everything you just said, but it's also, it's creating some new comforts and new routine that then I can't quantify it, but when I do it, I feel better throughout the day than when I don't. I don't know how to explain it. So that's part of the exploration, I think, as well, and we'll see where it goes. Okay, let's get to the baseball theme question. Wrap it up with four fun questions. I could do like 10 of them with you, because you have so many interesting, fun little facts about you, which I think has to do with being that adventure, some type of person. But yeah, how about a How about a home run in your career? I mean, what a pivot, although you're still writing and doing so much of what, what you had in you, I think, as an English teacher, doing it in a different way now. But yeah, someone that you put in your career.

Mary Lou Kayser 30:59

You know what? Honestly, Joel is probably not what most people would expect to hear, but the biggest home run that I've hit professionally is realizing and owning the truth that I do the creative work I do not because I have to, but because I want to. I write books. I dabble in songwriting. I'm a podcaster. I'm gearing up my speaking arm of things. I want to be out and bringing what I used to bring to the classroom so many years ago to audiences, to have them engage in a way, not just to talk at somebody, but to really, to really create opportunities for people to articulate what they're carrying around in their head. What's so great about a show like yours, and I will say a show like mine, is we are having conversations and articulating things that people are again, are thinking, but don't have the language to express. And if they hear one thing today that you and I brought up and it says, Yes, that's it, that's a win. So I would say that, you know, I'm just getting started with all of this. I'm building a new system that will help leaders retain the humanity that keeps us, keeps it interesting, but also embraces the speed of change and the technology in a way that more people rise than get left behind.

Joel Goldberg 32:37

That's great. That's a heck of a home run, by the way. It's just not what people think of as being a home run, right? And, and, but as I say all the time, and we'll get to the small ball in a minute, that not not all home runs, so to speak, have to be towering, majestic shots. I just covered one the other night as we're recording this in Kansas City from the greatest home run hitter in the world, Aaron Judge, who hit one 469 feet. And I talked to him yesterday, and any of us that saw that thought it was one of the longest we'd ever seen at Kauffman Stadium in Kansas City. It It landed on top of a building and and I talked to Aaron yesterday, who's one of the most gracious superstars you could ever meet.

Mary Lou Kayser 33:19

Yeah.

Joel Goldberg 33:19

And I said that wasn't 469 was it? And he said, No. And he's as humble as they get too. It was over 500 feet. That's what we think home runs. That's what we think of. Babe Ruth, but not all home runs have to look like that. And there's a lot of depth to what you said. So I really appreciate that. How about a swing and a miss along the way? And what did you learn from it?

Mary Lou Kayser 33:39

Swing and a miss? And it's letting letting the algorithm decide too much of my life. You know, that would be kind of an overarching swing and miss time and time again. And I'm not just talking about social media. I'm talking about a system of cultural expectations, productivity, pressure, you know, the whole hashtag hustle culture, which is not sustainable, right? And then also the invisible narratives, the paradigms that are programmed into us as children. And also, you can talk about generational paradigms, of the expectations. You know, I don't like to get into Gender Wars because I respect men and I respect women, and I don't particularly care for the war that is currently happening very publicly on social media around that. I tend to Take a human first approach, but being disconnected really unknowingly, I had handed over so much of my life, it cost me time. You used the word earlier alignment. But here's the thing about it. It also became the catalyst for what I'm doing now. So there's always that silver lining.

Joel Goldberg 34:59

Well, I. That's when the the swings and misses turn into something that's right. Those are the best swings and misses. They are. How about small ball? What are the little things that add up the big results for you?

Mary Lou Kayser 35:09

So this, I love this question, because small ball for me is I journal by hand every single morning. Some days I do a page, some days I do three. It depends. Always have. I always end my journal entry with gratitude. I write down 10 things I'm grateful for, which include people. And I also write down and I learned this from somebody I used to study under. I also write down the names of three people who are bothering me right now, so people who might be haunting me in some way, and I send them. I acknowledge them, and I send them love. Another thing that I do is I lift weights. I go on my treadmill. I have a fitness routine. I have a really, very specific supplement routine. I eat well, I I really honor my sleep, and I hug my mom Good night, and I tell her, I love her. And I reach out to people just when I'm thinking about them, with a text, saying, thinking about you today, sending love your way. I don't expect anything back, but these are the little things for me that make my day and then my weeks and then my months and my years add up to when I look back, I say I had again more W's than L's right in those columns. Yeah.

Joel Goldberg 36:39

Two quick thoughts on it. One. It's my favorite question, too. When I came up with that idea of a question, I don't like a lot of sticky, cheesy, but, and so, you know, I found when I started this podcast, and by the way, a tip of the hat to you, as we would say in baseball, because you are doing this thing well before anybody knew what podcasts were. I started it when people knew what they were, but before it was really in vogue. Now everybody's doing it, which is great. I think everybody should try it and and there are different purposes to it, and it may work, it may not. It doesn't matter. It could be different for everybody. But I thought that the only I when I started, I saw a lot of people were, I was appearing on their podcast, they were sending me a list of 25 questions so that I could be prepared. Like, no, I don't work that way. And if that's how you want it, that's fine. So I'm not a I'm not a prepare questions kind of guy, for better or worse, it is me. But I thought I need some baseball themed questions just to kind of tie it together. And I came up with that small ball question, and so it's my favorite question, and I've written two books based on that question and your answer, right? There was one of my favorite answers. So I'm not just blowing smoke, but there was, again, so much depth and so much I think I like anytime I hear a small ball answer that I've never heard before, and there was so much really unique specificity to it that that I'm not telling everybody listening. Hey, you should take that now and go hug your loved one, or this or that, but, but, but realize that there are little things you could do, everything, every single day, that will make you better, that'll bring you fulfillment and and everything that you benefit from it. So I love every, every bit of that. Okay, let's get to the fun, the final questions. I mean, you've got that adventure some type and so what? What is it? I mean, you used to be a rafting guide, I think. And you love the kayak, and I like to hike. I'd like to dabble a little bit more in some rafting. I've kayaked, but I'd like to do more of it. What is your favorite release, your favorite outdoor activity, whatever it might be to just go out there and let it all go?

Mary Lou Kayser 38:45

Swimming. Swimming in the lake. 100%. I can't do it all year because of where I live, but I do it in the summer because I can, and there is no feeling. And I love biking and hiking and kayaking, and I love going out in the power boat. I love being outside. But when I get in that water and I swim, I am it is heaven.

Joel Goldberg 39:14

Yeah.

Mary Lou Kayser 39:14

Yeah.

Joel Goldberg 39:15

Well, that, I mean, you obviously have a love of water. I saw, I see on my whole list of of interesting facts about you, loves to boogie board, wants to take the kids one day to to on a kayaking adventure in Greenland. So I suspect that that fun, that desire, never goes away. It's part of who who you are, another piece of who you are. I think would would be very obvious, if you're, if anybody's a college football fan, to dreams of having dinner with Marcus Mariota, the the quarterback and the former star quarterback for the University of Oregon. I could tell you this right now, as a graduate of The University of Wisconsin, which suddenly now means that we are rivals, which sounds, still sounds really weird to me, that we're in a similar conference or the same conference. I know that's but my brother, who lives in Portland, texted me yesterday, got five tickets to Wisconsin and Oregon with a wink, which I think meant, if you're available, you should come out. So I've never been to Eugene. I've been to Portland. I think I'm going to see if I can get to Wisconsin, at Oregon, on October 25. I'm sure we'll lose but maybe not. I don't know. They drive me a little nuts, but it's my guilty pleasure where I just try to be a fan and not work. Tell me about your love of Marcus Mariota, Mariota and the Oregon Ducks.

Mary Lou Kayser 40:48

Oh my gosh. So I was introduced to college football in 2007 I had never, I went to a very small liberal arts college, so I did not get the big football kind of scene that you would get at a big state school. I was like, This is what I've been missing all my life. It was, it was absolutely electrifying. I was hooked. And it, it didn't, didn't hurt that it was ESPN College Game Day, that day. So all the guys were there, you know, Herb Street and all those guys, and I just absolutely went bananas and for, for many years, well, then my daughter went to U of O. She was a Duck, and she was there at the exact same time Marcus Mariota was there. And I used to joke. I'm like, so when am I going to meet my future son in law? Mom, he's not my type. I'm like, How could he not be your type? But that's a very different so, you know, I spent a lot of time. I'm a Duck mom. I spent a lot of time in Eugene. I went to, we had season tickets, went to all the games, went to bowl games, lived through the Chip Kelly era, who really is hands down why the ducks are who they are now. He got the whole, he was so far ahead. In fact, I have a chapter in my book about Chip Kelly being so far ahead of the branding thing for teams. And people used to, and they still give us some, you know, shade about how many uniforms can one team have? But you know what, when you've got Phil Knight, as you're basically Phil Knight's a duck, and he loves University of Oregon, and, you know, good for him. He founded an amazing company. I will give a shout out to Shoe Dog. If you've never read it, read it. One of the greatest business books of all time. So I Marcus Mariota is not cut like other humans. He or like he's not your stereo stereotypical quarterback or football player. However, I will say that I think today, more players are like him than they used to be. There's a lot more consciousness around feelings, and it's amazing how in interviews, and you may experience this, Joel, I haven't seen your broadcast because I don't live in Kansas City, but what's so fascinating to me is the shift I see is players are now saying, Love you. Man, love you, man, I love you openly. That was never like that when I was growing up watching football. So I will be a Duck till I die. I love that team, win or lose. I think you know, it's, you will love Austin stadium. It is an incredible place to watch a football game. And I did see the Ducks play Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. I was at that game and we beat you. Sorry.

Joel Goldberg 43:39

Okay, it's okay. I honestly will just be if I can get out there. It's amazing. Yeah, I want to do it. I haven't been in Eugene. My my niece, my brother's youngest, is gonna be a freshman at Oregon next year. So yeah, so I want to, I want to go check that out, and maybe then we can get up to the Oregon Coast afterwards, or whatever it is. It's such an incredible, beautiful part of the country. I'll be out there right after this episode airs in July. 1 week, but it'll only be in Seattle for four games, not enough time to get down. Well, I always love when we have an off days and I can get down anyway. That's, that's it. Okay. Third question, as we round the bases. You are, if I'm reading correctly, a sustaining member of the Society of poets. What does that mean?

Mary Lou Kayser 44:37

Oh my gosh. So there's an organization that really honors poets and the the art form itself. I'm a poet. I openly claim that title or manacle, and I believe poetry is one of those art forms. It's highly misunderstood. People, a lot of people fear it. And, and unfortunately, a lot of people associate it with a really bad English class experience, because it was like, this is poetry week, and everybody would groan. I always like to say, I I'm not your I was not your typical English teacher. I never followed the rules. I always found ways to make make what I was doing really interesting for my students. I was always student first, and as a result, I was beloved for that. But yeah, I'll be I was writing poetry very young when I didn't even know what I was doing, and I had teachers and people in my life who pointed it out. I was winning awards when I was young, and I was doing it for quite some time, especially when I was teaching, but then I got away from it for a while, and that was a period of my life when we're not I know we're not going to go there, but I had a dark period of my life where I really lost sight of who I was, and when poetry came back to me, it came back to me right after my dad died. And it was a strange confluence of energies that were happening at that time is, you know, laying rest the patriarch of our family. At the time I had, I just met somebody who I believed was I was going to go the distance with that did not turn out. And the universe always has bigger plans, but poetry came back to me in 2021 and I've just held on to it. And it's, I should say, it has held on to me.

Joel Goldberg 46:40

Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, I I've never written poetry, but I've always loved writing. And you know, it's, I was gonna say it's gone away for me, I mean, but that's not really true, because I've written two books, but it's, I did. And this is where I want to go with my final question to walk off. We'll tie it all together, because I remember in high school, a gazillion years ago, I had an English teacher my junior year, and she was tough. Nobody liked her. I think the girls liked her less because she was she was mean to the girls. If, if, if the guys in the class weren't total jerks and were fairly well behaved, she could take a little bit of a liking to you. So she did that with me, but, but she was mean and tough, and it was hard, and I don't remember what happened, but when it came to register for classes, my senior year probably being, you know, a 17 year old boy. I either was late on the deadline or whatever, whatever happened. I got stuck with her again, and it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me.

Mary Lou Kayser 47:50

Oh, wonderful.

Joel Goldberg 47:51

Because we built a nice relationship. And, I mean, I lost touch with her, I don't, I don't even know that she's alive anymore, but Right? But she taught me how to write. And what it did was, when I got, when I got to the University of Wisconsin, I was ahead of people. I understood how to not write in a passive voice. I understood how to write with, you know, with, with better verbs, more more, you know, more action verbs. I'm not even describing it right anymore. And then that, and then it kind of went away, because writing for television is totally different. You got to write in short, little blips, but it became more creative. And now, quite frankly, I'm, you know, I'm in a world of of, I would almost say assembly line television, where it's just day after day after day after day. And every now and then you get to write something with some substance, which is really cool. So, you know, it shows in different ways, in the books and all of that. But we'll tie it all together to say in all of your work where it all began, the love of English and writing and poetry, how cool it must be. This is my walk off question, to tie it all together in a new world right now, and to have much purpose and so much of a ceiling that I would imagine doesn't restrain you in any way.

Mary Lou Kayser 49:05

Yeah. Yeah, I it really does feel like the world is is opening up in in so many ways. At the same time, when it's feels like it's falling apart again. That's that strange dichotomy, that strange tension. And I'm, I'm really excited. I will drop a little seed of I'm going to be doing a project with a dear friend of mine who's a singer songwriter in Nashville, has been there, been a fixture in there for 43 years, later, this summer. We're going to gather, and he's wanting to bring some poets together and some musicians together, and we're going to create this incredible project, just for the love of language and the art forms. Not because we're chasing some commercial success, or, you know, we're the next, next Netflix special. It's really just bringing humans together to celebrate what it means to express some of the hardest emotions. And I include love in that. You know, love poems are some of the most painful, because the whoever's writing that poem is suffering. It's and I appreciate you bringing up how there are so many different kinds of writing and the Internet and broadcasting. Even I'm not knocking them. They're forms of communication, but part of my mission is to preserve language and also open the door for people who want to walk through it and say, I'm done writing in sound bites. I don't want my, don't want to sound like the AI, because it all sounds the same. It is so easy to spot somebody who just copied and pasted. I'm real. I am. And my invitation to anybody listening is I'm throwing the door open. You know, if you want to walk through it, walk through it. It's there's so much on the other side.

Joel Goldberg 51:14

I want to encourage everybody check out the website. Jump onto the sub stack. Pay attention for the book coming out in the fall. It's Not You, It's the Algorithm: How to Slow Your Scroll and Start Paying Attention to Your Life Again. It really can be life changing. And that sounds so overly dramatized on my part, but it doesn't have to be a massive thing. It's just, it's just little things of regaining some of that control. The website is maryloukayser.com. I am not the least bit surprised that this was a deep, strong, interesting, engaging conversation. I had only those expectations, and I knew that they were going to be exactly correct. So thank you so much for doing this. Shout out as well to Damon Lembi, who, to me, has become one of the great connectors that I have had the privilege to know. I got to go out to dinner with them when we were playing the San Francisco Giants this year. It's always cool to meet people in person. And I don't know if maybe you'll be at the Ducks game on October 25. Probably not, but.

Mary Lou Kayser 52:16

Maybe I will. Or I'll catch you at a ball game.

Joel Goldberg 52:18

Yeah, either way, if you're there, I'll be the guy in red, probably cheering for the losing team, but it's a road game we're not supposed to win anyway. Mary Lou, thank you so much. Really appreciate it, and then really, really grateful for you sharing everything.

Mary Lou Kayser 52:33

Thank you. Joel, it has been so great today. I appreciate you and what you're doing.